In this episode of ‘I Can See CLRiE Now’, we have the pleasure of hearing from graduate researchers who have members of CLRiE. They share their experiences about conducting research in the field, the challenges they faced, and the changes they hope to see in the future of education research. These young researchers are driving progress and pushing boundaries with their innovative approaches and unwavering passion. With their unique perspectives and valuable input, we hope to gain a deeper understanding of research in education.
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SPEAKERS
Ali Jasemi, Avnee Sharma, Shawna Reibling, Kiara Daw
[Intro Music]
Shawna Reibling 00:15
Welcome to the 'I Can See CLRiE Now' podcast. This podcast is designed to fulfill the mission of the Center for Leading Research in Education to mobilize leading education knowledge completed by their members and students involved in the research center to the wider public and those who can benefit from the knowledge.
[Musical break]
Shawna Reibling 00:33
Welcome to the 'I Can See CLRiE Now' podcast. This podcast is designed to fulfill the mission of the Center for Leading Research in Education to mobilize leading education knowledge completed by their members and students involved in the research center to the wider public and those who can benefit from the knowledge. The theme for this episode is that we can't change the world but we can start with one Research Center at a time and the three graduate students that are joining us today are part of that change in the world to forward their research works through CLRiE. So first, I'd like to have them introduce themselves to you. So we'll start in alphabetical order with Ali Jasemi, Ali, please introduce yourself.
Ali Jasemi 01:08
For sure. Hi, my name is Ali Jasemi and I am a PhD candidate in psychology developmental psychology, mainly focusing on the interrelations with mental health, acculturation and language acquisition in young adults throughout their lifespan. My graduate supervisor is Dr. Alexandra Gottardo and I'm glad to be here with you.
Shawna Reibling 01:35
And what stage of your research are you in?
Ali Jasemi 01:38
So, I'm in the fourth year of my PhD studies, and I'm in the process of writing my dissertation now that the data collection is over.
Shawna Reibling 01:47
Thank you. Next, I'd like to welcome Avnee Sharma, please introduce yourself.
Avnee Sharma 01:51
So, I'm Avnee. I'm a second year PhD student in developmental psych(ology). I'm under the supervision of Dr. Danielle Law. And I'm also the lab and community outreach coordinator for my supervisors lab, which is the child and adolescent Research and Education Lab. We affectionately call it CARE. And my research focuses on how the media impacts the development of adolescents and emerging adults, I tend to look more at social media in terms of that.
Shawna Reibling 02:22
And what stage of your studies are you in?
Avnee Sharma 02:26
I'm just wrapping up my comprehensive research project with Dr. Alexander Gottardo. Looking at how social media impacts language learning in international and English as second language students, and then I'm going to start my dissertation with Dr. Law in the fall.
Shawna Reibling 02:42
Thank you. And last but not least Kiara, please introduce yourself.
Kiara Daw 02:47
Great. Hi, everyone. My name is Kara Daw. I've been at Laurier. since fall of 2020. I graduated from the master's in social justice and community engagement program of spring in 2022. And last fall, in the fall of 2022, I started the Bachelor of Education Program, and I have one more year left. So, right now what I'm working on this summer is working alongside Dr. Sider and his Lead to Include team which focuses on the intersections of inclusive schools, school leadership, and comparative and international research, which he likes to center around student belonging.
Shawna Reibling 03:24
Thank you so much. I'm pleased that all three of you are at different stages and different programs in terms of graduate education. So I think that'll bring a rich diversity of experiences to our discussion. What I wanted to first ask you is, what does the community of CLRiE bring to your research? And what have you learned contributing to a research center like CLRiE and I'll start with Kiara to answer this question.
Kiara Daw 03:49
Of course, yeah, this is an awesome question. So, CLRiE has allowed me to learn many skills that I would say haven't necessarily been exposed to my own graduate classes or my own graduate studies. Like for example, it's given me lots more opportunities become known and experienced in my field. So, while I'm working with Dr. Sider on numerous projects, some are actually being published, which has been a goal of mine since I started graduate studies. And I've been finding that finding guidance on how to achieve this goal has been a little bit tough before joining this research center. Now, however, working with Dr. Sider, he asked me at the beginning of the summer to outline some of my goals and objectives. And I indicated to him that becoming published I mean the process of becoming published is something that I'm really interested in and would love to have the skills to move forward with. And when I mentioned that I wanted to learn the process of becoming published, he took it very seriously and has really made conscious efforts to provide me with experience in learning how to do this. He's actually given me some opportunities to co-author some of his pieces that are going to be published in the future, which is really cool. And I think what's extra cool about this is knowing that I have a supervisor who's committed to helping me achieve my goals is super empowering and helping me gain a lot of confidence I've noticed. And there was actually a time it's kind of funny, I remember I was chatting with Dr. Sider and some of the other RAs in his office. And I looked at like, above his desk, he had my goals and objectives posted. And I made a comment. And I was like, Are those my goals? Like, like, I can see them above your desk? That's really cool. And he laughed, and he was like, Yeah, Kiara I really just posted them for my own memory. But I was like, You know what, I think I think that's actually huge for me as a student that really, really made a difference. Like, you know, seeing that your supervisor has taken a vested interest in your success is super inspiring. So, knowing that I have Dr. Sider, or someone who's really committed to helping me achieve these goals, and having such a great mentor is absolutely huge, like I said, in building confidence, gaining these skills, it's, it's really incredible.
Shawna Reibling 05:51
That's amazing. And you know, if you can see your goals in front of you, they're more likely to be achieved. So that's an amazing, amazing story. and kudos to your, supervisor, Ali, what does the community of CLRiE bring to your research? And what have you learned contributing to a research center like CLRiE?
Ali Jasemi 06:09
Sure, actually, it's a combination of both in my answer, in fact, what I think science is, and or at least should be, is battling the dogma and first, within. So one thing that CLRiE does is bringing perspectives of others, other researchers, and they could be in many different path to research into finding quote unquoe the truth. So, this helps us to have this communal environment to chat, to gain better perspectives or other perspectives that may or may not be different from how we see the paradigms that we use and being involved with, CLRiE for some time now, I have noticed that there is a very fast growth in the community of CLRiE and people from different paradigms, different research backgrounds are joining and that is really helpful to broaden my perspective as an individual, for sure. And also, it helps with the sense of community. If I want to bring it back to the scope of this talk, especially for young researchers, or the ones who are just joining the community of research, this is a really good and safe practice, for researchers to test the water and see how they can fend for themselves, how to learn from others, and how to share their ideas, and in an environment that they get embraced. And I have felt it throughout my involvement with CLRiE as well, that it's really supportive community, both to provide new perspectives, and also to listen to perspectives of people who are joining recently to this community.
Shawna Reibling 08:13
That's a great point that it's quickly evolving to provide support for CLRiE to achieve its goals to mobilize leading research and as well to support all members, students, faculties and others in achieving their goals Avnee, what does the community of CLRiE bring to your research?
Avnee Sharma 08:31
So Ali actually highlighted a lot of things that I was going to say in my answer. But just to kind of build off of what Ali was saying, I agree that it's for me, mostly, it's about that sense of belonging. Because at times research itself is kind of a lonely place, like you're working on a project for months, let's say. And you're basically doing all of the write up, the data analysis, the running around collecting data, like you're doing that by yourself, for the most part. So, and you don't really see any recognition for it, or like any results for it until after it's published, or after it's done, or you've presented it at a conference someplace, for example. So, to have like the support and the backing of like a research center, like CLRiE and of course, my supervisors lab as well. It provides us big sense of belonging and it's like you're not alone in this process. Everybody else is kind of going through the same or similar process as you and you're not alone in that space. And you can lean on everybody else for help if you need to.
Shawna Reibling 09:33
The support that's provided by a research center is I think very important in terms of the work that you do and to becoming the researchers you're going to be so that when you finish your PhDs or your masters work and you are leaders in research going forward in your careers, you have a really good model for how to set goals, how to support others and goals, and how to bring together and work with a group of people to mobilize that research into your field and into the wider world. In one of the pre conversations we had, we talked about when you went to a conference, you see CLRiE members presenting, and how you feel that sense of belonging in your own work and you feel supported at conferences, do any of you want to comment on that experience at all?
Ali Jasemi 10:17
For sure, actually, I can go ahead and talk about it a bit. We did attend a conference. And actually, this is a large scale project, a national project that's going on in terms of linking the research with new technologies, such as artificial intelligence, which is a very hot topic these days. And so there were really significant contributions from universities all across Canada. But also what was really interesting to me was that CLRiE had a very bold presence in that community, and in terms of the contributions that will be done, and it is starting to take a leadership role in that endeavour. So, that was really heartwarming in terms of seeing, you know, the fruits of all these efforts coming into place in a rather short period of time, relatively, as a research center. So this has been one of the moments as an example that I could bring to this conversation.
Shawna Reibling 11:28
Thank you. Avnee, why are partnerships important to your research?
Avnee Sharma 11:33
Going back to what Ali mentioned previously, it's about perspectives, and different perspectives in research. My supervisor, Dr. Law always taught us that good research is multidisciplinary, which means that there's a bunch of different people from different fields on one specific project. So for instance, my own research dives into developmental aspects. But I also have a foot in the social psychology field as well, because of the whole social media thing. So good research has different facets in different fields. And I think that's important to highlight, especially when you're looking at how does it all come together, like someone from a different field might have a good idea. And you may not have thought of it before, because it's outside of your own sphere of what you do. And just because it is doesn't mean you should overlook that.
Shawna Reibling 12:22
That's a great point. Kiara, I know that you're working on your Bachelor of Education, the interactions with folks in CLRiE, who are working in development, psychology, or education or other areas, are you finding that enriches the work that you're doing?
Kiara Daw 12:38
I've noticed that partnerships are really big for me. Now, during my undergrad, I found that a lot of the time I was doing my school, being in research, etc, things like that, I almost felt like I was in a silo, I was often working by myself, I kind of dreaded group projects, things like that. But you know, once I started grad school, I really began to see the power that partnerships truly bring to research. And I kind of began to see how individuals lived experiences shaped the way that they engage with research. And you can see this a lot in the Faculty of Education as Avnee was saying the multidisciplinary perspectives are really, really interesting. We actually have some faculty who are working with students outside of the Faculty of Education, who are doing really powerful work. And that's super inspirational for me as well. And I just want to say that, like, everybody has different skills and experiences that they bring to the table. And I've found that when I'm working in partnerships, and working in groups now is pushing me to actually be a deeper critical thinker. And I think that's really, really helpful in research. I've noticed that when I work with others, I'm almost more encouraged to challenge my own beliefs by considering their own perspectives. And I think it's interesting in research because it's really easy for unconscious bias to influence our work. And sometimes as researchers, we need reminders of this. So, I find that we really benefit from considering ideas from other perspectives. And for myself, that actually makes my work stronger usually. Then I also wanted to mention that being part of the lead to include team has created a safe environment for me where I'm not afraid to ask questions or make mistakes. And this has really, really helped me grow. As we mentioned before, I'm a newer researcher. So, this has really helped me grow. Because rather than being afraid to try something new for the fear of failure, I'm really open to expanding my ideas and trying new things because I know that the lead to include team will support me. And this is really impactful for my personal growth because we all learn from each other on this team. And a lot of the work that we're doing this summer with Dr. Sider includes global partnerships, which has elevated my experience being in the BSN program has been incredible, but getting to see what people are doing around the world. I'm working with top scholars in special education. from a global perspective. This is really really enhanced my learning and my understanding of the way that we teach and engage with education, and I actually am feeling more confident as a new researcher when I'm working in these partnerships, because I'm getting to learn, like I said, from the top scholars, and that's such a privilege. So yeah, partnerships are huge for me,
Shawna Reibling 15:14
Ali, how partnerships affected your work.
Ali Jasemi 15:17
If I want to say it in one word, it's significantly, but lots of good points were made so far already. So I'm just going to put the emphasis on another aspect of it. But before doing that, one thing is, humans are communal species. So you know, this partnership is not just in the research, in all aspects of our lives, we are constantly partnering with different people across the society the same way that we are doing it right now. And in the research, it's the same thing. So, you're technically partnering with the participants that you have in this study, they are helping you, they are maybe also learning something from you. Also publications, the research assistants, all these different facets of research, involve partnership, so I'm just going to change the gear from that and bring it more to CLRiE and how partnership with CLRiE has helped. One of the major aspects of partnering or being a member of CLRiE and its relations to the research is finding support and opportunities. And also situations that you could be of help, even beyond CLRiE. So, as an example that I can bring is that one of the good friends and members of CLRiE, he has some friends and some researchers that he knows in another province, in Quebec, in another university, University of McGill. And so, that researcher is not part of CLRiE but because of a member, researcher member of CLRiE now we are in contact and exchanging ideas in the field of research that I am working in. So, not only this partnership assists us within the CLRiE and getting the perspectives going back to the previous question, but also it opens another window that you can access certain partnerships, even beyond the scope of CLRiE that could be used. And as I said to bring it all back together is that I believe if these partnerships, especially in the field of research that I am doing, and many people are doing, if they don't exist, no research, no contributions to the body of literature could be performed. So they are huge, and they are very significant. CLRiE embraces all of that.
Shawna Reibling 17:54
I love what you've all said around it's about partnerships and networks in the work that you do is intrinsically lonely, because you're singularly focused on a research question. But the partnerships and the networks and the interactions you have with each other, can almost exponentially build your work and exponentially build the impact you have in your field. I'm so glad that it CLRiE is helping with that.
[Musical break]
Shawna Reibling 18:29
I'm going to just ask a question that I'm sure the students listening to this podcast would want to know the answer to because you're working through the process of completing your graduate work. What advice do you have for students who are thinking of becoming involved in education research?
Avnee Sharma 18:45
So, I think the main thing for me is, don't be afraid to explore. And the reason I say this is because when I was doing my MA, I didn't know what I wanted to do for my thesis. I went into my MA and I had no idea what I was going to do for my thesis. So, my supervisor, Dr. Law actually gave me an exercise to do and I actually encourage undergrads and incoming master's students who don't necessarily know what their own research interests are to try this. So, she gave me an assignment to do, she asked me to write a one page journal entry on what I wanted to do for my thesis, why I thought it was important, and backup some of my thoughts with a couple of citations. So, I wrote about it. And I wrote about how social media influencers influence emerging adult and what caveats that has for their social and emotional development, and like self esteem, for instance. So, I wrote about that. And it got me thinking about, you know, why is this important? What kind of impact does this have in the field and in the literature, and what can I actually do with this and what's my research question? So, it got me thinking it got me into research mindset. And I think that doing something like that, and not being afraid to explore and not being afraid to take that step and actually figure out, okay, what do I want to do? And, you know, conquering that fear of not knowing is really important.
Kiara Daw 20:16
Awesome. Yeah, that was a great answer, Avnee. So, the advice I would give is that I would tell students, if they have the time, the space and the capacity to become involved in education research, to absolutely take any opportunity that they can, as I've said a few times, I can't even begin to express how impactful education research has been for me. I mean, as a future educator, it's helping me mobilize my practice. For example, this summer, I've gotten to speak with principals, leaders, people who are in the field who have given me real practical knowledge. And I've seen many different classrooms, learn strategies from my research, on how to work with the students, and like just the networking opportunities that you'll gain is truly unparalleled to anything I've ever received before before coming into this research center. And it's such a good support network. And the confidence, as I've mentioned so many times is really incredible. And just like on a personal note, more, I always share with really whoever's willing to listen to my stories. When I moved from my undergrad to my grad studies, it was quite literally like night and day for me, I had a pretty tough time in my undergrad, I transferred schools, I switched programs, and I really struggled to find where I belonged. I had a handful, I would say, of professors who I can honestly say, were really in my corner and saw my potential. And they encouraged me to pursue grad studies, and I will forever ever be grateful that they did. And you know, when people tell you that statement, when you're leaving high school, saying, you know, university will be better, because you could find your people, you'll find where you belong. I really didn't find that this was the case for me in my undergrad. But I did think that this is the case, when I found grad studies at Laurier. I've taken so many opportunities at Laurier, my confidence has just skyrocketed. As I said before, it's quite literally like night and day. And when I joined a research team like this one, like I have this summer, it's just another incredible opportunity that's come this way towards me to connect with really intelligent, really humble, really great people that I learned from every single day. So, I would say if you're listening and questioning at all, and listening to this podcast, consider this your sign to get involved because it will be life changing. And I don't say things like that lightly. So yeah.
Ali Jasemi 22:32
Actually, for me, I'm in the fourth year of my PhD, as I mentioned earlier and plus two years of my masters. So, there has been lots of ups and downs. Especially I was also focused on developmental psychology aspects, but also very tightly related to education as well. So one thing from this perspective, if I want to have two young researchers or the ones who want to step into this path, is be sure to have patience. This is very important. It has been definitely the situation for me. It definitely gets good. At the beginning, when you start, you may feel that you're lost, you may feel that nothing is happening. You want to go, let's say have data collection, or do what you're supposed to do. And you just face dead ends or roadblocks. First of all, know that those are not dead ends. They're just obstacles when you step back or when you're beyond them, a while later, you're just going to realize that they were not that big. It's very important to have that in mind and that patience, especially in this field, field of education field of psychology, you are working with humans being children, adults, people with certain mental health or psychological challenges. And it's much different than working let's say with mice or working with computer programs. So, there are lots of nuances that you have to also master, At the beginning it is going to be hard. Again you would need patience to learn that. As you go along you may feel literally that you are in a dark cave, dark tunnel you're not going to see any light but be sure that there is going to be light be it dim or not but it is going to reappear and sometimes disappear again but it is going to appear and at the end of the road you are going to realize that all of it was worth it. You are going to make Make a difference, you are going to have an impact, small or large, you are going to have an impact. And you're going to realize that it was all worth doing that.
Shawna Reibling 23:03
All this advice you've given is fantastic and will help emerging researchers as they start their graduate studies and continue on to become researchers who contribute to research centers, like CLRiE or share their lived experience or contribute their practice to the research that is going on through the research center in the community. And I wonder if you could share, how do you hope to see your field evolve? And we'll start with you Ali.
Ali Jasemi 25:39
For sure, I believe one thing that's important in any field of research or any aspects of life, is battling the dogma. We talked about it before. And it may happen, even in you know, in the fields of even scientists, sometimes, we may get stuck in our research in the way that we see the board. And we may think that we know the answer, and we are the answer. And because we have read so many books, so we know better. But the mere meaning of science, and being a scientist is that we don't know, we just want to know better. And so that goes to seeing the research field evolving, as well. So one thing is that it may happen that researchers may get used to seeing the board from a specific lens, and it may get opaque over time, or it may get hard to change course or change the gear at least adapting to the new nuances. With the emergence of new technologies, it actually brings new lifestyle and new human dynamics in our society. So. one thing that's important, especially starting with these research centers, is bringing those new ideas and not being afraid of sharing them, not being afraid of thinking that this is the established thought or paradigm or the way the research community works, you may be the new leader in that research field, you may be the person who is going to establish a new paradigm in the field that you're doing. Who knows, like, first of all, I think humility is important in terms of knowing that the people who have been in this field for 30-40 years, they know quite much, and you can learn about, you know the field. But also don't be afraid of sharing your ideas just because you haven't been around for that long. There is always room for improvement. And we can make that change and CLRiE would be a good context or good playground to start with.
Shawna Reibling 28:19
It's almost like CLRiE acts as a megaphone to share these ideas and really create an atmosphere where ideas can be shared and developed to influence the field. I wanted to ask here, what does your voice bring to the research landscape? And what do you hope to contribute?
Kiara Daw 28:38
Yeah, that's a great question. And I really, really liked what Ali just said, I'm, I'm taking a lot away from this conversation. But I think I mentioned before, I'm still relatively new to the field of education research, but you know, having great mentors, which I think you can see, through all my answers has really been highlighted the power of mentorship. Yeah, having great mentors in the social justice program, as well as in the Faculty of Education has been really empowering for me. I've had a lot of mentors who not only encouraged me to pursue future research paths, like my PhD eventually, but they also truly believe that this is something that I can achieve. And as I've kind of said before, this type of empowerment has really helped me build my confidence. So, I guess to answer your question, having these mentors guide me in gaining opportunities in the field has really shown me that my voice does carry important way in the field. I know that my lived experiences and my unique intersectionality does bring different perspectives to the field. And I'm learning that my lived experiences can actually contribute to this field through this type of mentorship through these people, helping me see where I belong in the field is really, really empowering. And as I mentioned, we are emerging researchers and in my field, this means that I've experienced being in the education system a little bit more recently than other researchers, which means that I do bring different perspectives to the table. And like, I liked what Ali said about, you know, being humble and knowing that other people have different experiences. And a lot of people will have a lot more experiences than me, but knowing that my perspectives are still valid, and being able to learn from others, but also building what I like to think of as that reciprocity, sharing my own ideas and my lived experiences that I bring to the table, but also learning from others, I think is absolutely huge. And I think that's where we start to see these big innovative practices and these big ideas coming forward, when you get that beautiful collaboration of people who have been in the field for a long time. And then the new people who are like, for example, in education, just coming out of the education system and bringing different ideas to the table.
Shawna Reibling 30:45
I think that's a really important point that the research is connected to what's actually happening in the education field, and that will help the research be more applicable to the actual practices that are happening in the classroom. Avnee, I wanted to get to you to ask you that same question, how do you hope to see your field evolve?
Avnee Sharma 31:04
So, based on your comment there, Shawna, just about, like how practices and research can impact practices in classrooms, I like to take that as practices in real life as well. So, my research is based in social media and beauty standards, and that sort of thing. So, a lot of the the literature that surrounds that is heavily based upon a female population. So, I personally would like to see more diversity in the research itself, like using male participants, for instance, having a more diverse sample, in terms of ethnicity, as well, like making sure that, you know, when we do our research, and we do our research practices that we take into account, the fact that, you know, maybe these results are not generalizable to everybody. And maybe it's just to a specific population. And can we make it generalizable to everybody by including more diversity and more gender diversity and ethnic diversity, probably, but we should probably, you know, implement those practices in order to do that. So that's how I hope to see like this little niche field of mine evolve and is having for starters, having more male participants, but also being more inclusive and more diverse. In terms of the sample sizes, and sample sets that they obtain.
Shawna Reibling 32:16
I wondered if all of you wanted to expand a little bit more fully on evolving norms and research and building more diversity into research methods. And I was going to start with Ali for that question.
Ali Jasemi 32:31
For sure, actually, this is a very hot topic for me. Thank you for bringing it up. And Avnee it was great to hear your perspective on that as well. One thing is just as a reminder, a lot of my research focuses on language acquisition, and acculturation, meaning cultural adjustment, or changes in someone's culture or value, specifically working with new migrants in Canada. So, because of my involvement, and also exposure to the literature, or to what has been done, I believe we have a long way to go, or at least a significant amount of work that we could put in place to make the length shorter as we can make it wider. So one thing is, it seems that there are certain established ideas in terms of EDI, equity, diversity and inclusivity in the research, but seems like in not in all cases, but in certain cases for sure, to be patches, to certain research views or research methodologies, or at least even the questions that are being asked, that are kind of masking the racialized population or what has been loud and clear I can say that racist, we it is not necessarily new ideas. In the field of psychology, we have seen that to be the case when new migrants were migrating to the US in the early days of new era of United States for European immigrants, people coming from other places and the mere fact that people were not able to understand the questions focused on their intelligence because of the language barriers. They were deemed to, you know, you know, be labeled with low intelligence, merely because they were not able to speak that language. The same thing? Well, we have come a very long way. There has been enormous improvements in that area. However, we are still facing with a lot of challenges, similar to what was happening there. One step further, is about the cultural differences that need to be taken into consideration. And so I feel like a lot of times, but this is not necessarily about single researchers, it's like a community and maybe like a global community that could be working on it, hopefully at some point, but we need to be realistic as well. But the situation is a lot of tests that we are using, they are not standardized in other languages. And this could be problematic, because a lot of times just translating a test, or the responses to that test, and what is, quote unquote, the correct response. It's non existent. In my own research, for example, realized or we realized in the lab, that certain concepts do not really apply in other cultures, for example, when you're looking at a specific language test, and this question and corresponding answer should be very, well, it is considered as one of the really easy answers. But it may not be the case. For example, a mermaid, I know, certain cultures do not have mermaids, do not have a word for it. And then when you're considering that, okay, this person was not even able to respond to this easy answer. But we know in North America that one mermaid is, and it's so easy to know, to spot it, even the children know it, but it may not be the case for everybody from across the globe. This is just a tiny example. But there are a lot of other situations and examples that could be brought with significant impact on the validity of a test, meaning that whether this is actually tapping on what you want it to be tapping on and what responses that you want to get. The other thing is that I think this is the time that we put races behind us and focus on things that are more important than just skin pigmentation. I am seeing that in a lot of actually serious and very highly regarded tests, that they're still looking at, technically, skin color, when you are having white as one of the choices in your quote unquote, ethnicity or demographic information. What does it even mean? What does it mean to be white? Or it could be about all cultures are what does it mean to be black. Somebody could be from, let's say, South Africa, someone else could be from maybe like many generations living in the United States, and they could go with the demographics, choice that is given to them as black. But it's not happening on the cultural differences. It's not happening on the lived experiences that they have, which could have impact on the results that they're getting. Same thing with, quote unquote, white as one of the options, somebody could be from Ukraine, or Russia or Eastern Europe, and the other person from, you know, downtown London, UK, or Canada, etc. So we are missing a lot of important information, again, going back to the example of mermaid, if you're just looking at their skin color, and wanting to expand that to certain abilities that they have to have. It's simply wrong. And I think, hopefully, if you're looking at EDI, and especially answering research questions, we could make significant improvements. And rather than just patching something that was not correct in the past, coming up with better ideas, and putting race behind us. Thank you for listening to this long rant.
Shawna Reibling 39:06
Avnee, do you want to add to the evolution of research and measurement norms in your field?
Avnee Sharma 39:14
I think Ali pretty much summed it up pretty well. I do think that there needs to be work done in terms of how young researchers are mentored in survey design in some aspects. And the reason I say that is because one of the things that I personally struggled with the most when I was going into making the survey for my master's thesis was the Demographics section. And like the basic info section, and the reason that was was because, well, what do I put here? How do I phrase this in such a way that it's inclusive and it doesn't alienate any of my participants in my participants? Do you like that, hey, there's an option there that fits me, there's an option there that I can answer and it suits my needs or my own preferences. So, I just want to make sure that's something that needs to be looked at, because I didn't have much of, I had some support in that area. And, you know, eventually it was figured out, and we got a decent survey out of it. But I just think that more needs to be done there in order to provide some resources for emerging researchers in that area. So that, you know, we are respecting Equity, Diversity and Inclusion, in our research, and in our research practices.
Shawna Reibling 40:38
That's a great point that we need to evolve research designs and methodologies in emerging researcher training, and I think bringing the three of you together to talk about this. And to bring it to the attention of CLRiE as a whole really creates a force for change in doing survey research in this way, and we can move beyond the quote unquote, basic demographics, unquote, to really make surveys really do what they need to do and find the answers that researchers need to find. Kiara, did you want to add anything here?
Kiara Daw 41:17
Yeah, actually, I think I'm gonna take it in a little bit of a different direction. So, I think it's really cool. When you start to bring up topics like this in classes for me in the BA program, you really get to see the way that students get fired up about these topics. And as I mentioned before, I believe this is because when you talk about topics such as EDI, as I've said before, everyone has lived experiences that they bring to the table. So, when we get to talk about how to navigate power imbalances, and making room for tough conversations, how we challenge different ways of thoughts, we are being respectful, things like this, it gives space for everybody to share respectfully, as I mentioned their opinions and ideas while bringing their lived experiences to the table. And I think you'll probably have noticed by now, but I am a person who likes to share stories. And it's funny because I remember during my second semester in the B Ed program, I was in class with some of my friends. And it was a presentation day, and all the presentations were interactive, small group setting type things, and the topics were all pretty relevant to ED and I. And it was just so huge seeing the way that my friend and I lit up when we heard the topic of conversation. And knowing that it was an EDI and I topic, I honestly think it was the most that I spoke in the whole course. So it was just huge seeing like these conversations, sparking such interest in my classmates and I. And I've noticed that in my short time and grad studies, I have done a lot of work with ED and I. And it's also really interesting to see how some people approach it, you can see that some folks are trying to integrate it into the core of their work, while others almost use it as like a checkbox in their to do list. And in my field, I think that when you get young educators together to talk about these important issues, you can like, like I mentioned in that class with my friend and I, you can quite literally feel the powerful energy in the room. And this makes me really, really confident that the next generation of teachers are going to be revolutionary in our field. And I'm beginning to feel like you know, as I mentioned before, we might be the group that starts to embed these ideas into the roots of our practice, rather than, you know, having them as a checkbox. And I think that's huge. And these conversations are just sparking such interest. And I think it's because everybody has lived experiences and ideas that they bring to the table.
Shawna Reibling 43:45
Thank you here for closing out this discussion with that, as those discussions happen with students, they happen at research centers, and they should happen in your research fields as well. You really bring home the theme of this episode, which is we can't change the world alone but we can start with one Research Center at a time with young researchers leading the way. Thank you to the three of you for participating. Thank you. Thank you.
Kiara Daw 44:11
Thanks Shawna, this was an awesome conversation. I took a lot away from what Avnee and Ali were saying as well.
Shawna Reibling 44:17
This is great. And hopefully listeners will take away the different perspectives that you brought and the different phases of the study that you're in, to really enrich the work that they do. And when they consider graduate studies or mentoring graduate studies of their own. They really use CLRiE as a model for how to develop researchers and research programs that can change the world. Thank you. Thank you for listening to I can see CLRiE now, the Center for Leading Research in Education podcast. Stay tuned for more episodes featuring CLRiE researchers, students and community partners and conversation about leading educational research, Follow CLRiE on Twitter at WLU_CLRiE or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks to all who have been instrumental in the production of this episode in this series. The CLRiE podcast was recorded and produced on the traditional territory of the Neutral, Anishinaabe and Haudenosaunee peoples. For more information click on the land acknowledgement link in our show notes. This episode of I can see CLRiE now was made with support from Laurier's Office of Research Services. Thank you for listening to this season of 'I Can See CLRiE Now'. Stay tuned for more episodes of the podcast next season.